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[spydglide]

If Iowa is like FL then all the pumps are running up to 10% ethanol already.
Doesn't matter if you pump premium or not.
If your bike starts running ratty, especially at idle, it's probably because of this congressionally mandated ethanol crap plan.

I've really noticed a difference in not only how crappy mine's running since the ethanol has been added.....but, the gas mileage has suffered also.  It's about the worse plan that anyone (politicians) could have come up with.......what a 'system' this has evolved into, huh?    spyder

[grc]

If Iowa is like FL then all the pumps are running up to 10% ethanol already.
Doesn't matter if you pump premium or not.
If your bike starts running ratty, especially at idle, it's probably because of this congressionally mandated ethanol crap plan.

Can't disagree that too much ethanol will make a Harley run like crap, but if you look at his symptoms it appears he is running way too rich.  Too much ethanol would result in a lean condition, not rich.

Since the earlier Delphi systems lack O² sensors, mixture control relies strictly on the ECM programming and the outputs from the various sensors.  If one of those sensors fails, you should get a trouble code which would lead you directly to the problem.  However, if the sensor just suffers a shift that doesn't result in an obvious error, such as a temp sensor that suddenly starts reading 80 degrees even though the head is actually at 300 degrees, you won't necessarily get a code but the cooler temp reading will cause the ECM to richen the mixture as if the engine was still warming up.  Same thing can happen with the ambient air temp sensor, the throttle position sensor, or the MAP sensor.  Anything that can trigger the ECM to richen the mixture is suspect.  Wholesale replacement of sensors might fix the problem, but a much better approach would be to test the sensors and replace the one actually causing the problem (if any).

Are you seeing this "loading up" just at idle, or all the time when hot?  Is the bike stock, or do you have a mixture tuning device of some sort (DFO, PCIII, SERT, etc.)?

Jerry

[Midnight Rider]

Can't disagree that too much ethanol will make a Harley run like crap, but if you look at his symptoms it appears he is running way too rich.  Too much ethanol would result in a lean condition, not rich.

Since the earlier Delphi systems lack O² sensors, mixture control relies strictly on the ECM programming and the outputs from the various sensors.  If one of those sensors fails, you should get a trouble code which would lead you directly to the problem.  However, if the sensor just suffers a shift that doesn't result in an obvious error, such as a temp sensor that suddenly starts reading 80 degrees even though the head is actually at 300 degrees, you won't necessarily get a code but the cooler temp reading will cause the ECM to richen the mixture as if the engine was still warming up.  Same thing can happen with the ambient air temp sensor, the throttle position sensor, or the MAP sensor.  Anything that can trigger the ECM to richen the mixture is suspect.  Wholesale replacement of sensors might fix the problem, but a much better approach would be to test the sensors and replace the one actually causing the problem (if any).

Are you seeing this "loading up" just at idle, or all the time when hot?  Is the bike stock, or do you have a mixture tuning device of some sort (DFO, PCIII, SERT, etc.)?

Jerry

Now THAT is a troubleshooting post!!  Good job Jerry, as always...

[darcyjames1]

Are you seeing this "loading up" just at idle, or all the time when hot?  Is the bike stock, or do you have a mixture tuning device of some sort (DFO, PCIII, SERT, etc.)?

Jerry
[/quote]
Loading up just at idle speeds when hot, runs great out on the road.
have SE true duals, SE air intake W/ K&N filter, have a PCIII but I took it off the bike till I can get this figured out(no change w/wo the PCIII) and the problem comes and goes, just came back from bike night in Des Moines about 4o miles away it didn't do it all night till just about home and only a little then.

[novazeus]

Here's what happened to my '06 Fatboy. I put on VH HS Propipe with Fuel Pak and SE Big Bore Kit. Ran perfect until a couple of months ago when the price of gas jumped and I ran out of hi test I had been keeping in my air conditioned garage and went back to pump gas. I would start the bike and let it idle until it warmed up and after about a minute and a half of it idling it would start to cough every so often. It still ran ok but the coughing at idle had never been there before. I then found out all the gas stations had been switching over to ethanol.
I also noticed that I was getting bad gas mileage on my bikes and couldn't figure out why.
Ethanol is crap. Plus all the cattle feed I buy has doubled in price. Next year expect to see a huge jump in beef prices.

[skreminegul07]

One word...ethanol, it's crap.

The taxpayers are paying a lot of tax subsidies to create this POC product.  10% Ethanol is reducing mileage by 10%.  Why are we doing it?  To make a few senators in the midwest rich, I reckon.  So this GREEN initiative is GREEN for the money it's making people, not helping the environment.
Then it makes the supply of corn go down which means we pay more for products and more people go hungry.
Hollywood could not make this chit up.

[novazeus]

It seems like everyone knows the truth about ethanol except the politicians probably because they don't pump the gas into their limos.
Until their limos start running so bad they start spilling their martinis in the back they will do nothing.
Maybe some one smarter than me will start an anti ethanol site where it can be circulated around the web and all complain to our politicians and maybe be afraid they don't get re-elected they will do something.
We all know that it doesn't save gas and it doesn't save the environment.
One local tv station had a news story on how this one gas station still had non ethanol gas and people were lining up around the block to buy it because the people knew they got better gas mileage and their vehicles ran better.

[TORKER07]

It seems like everyone knows the truth about ethanol except the politicians probably because they don't pump the gas into their limos.
Until their limos start running so bad they start spilling their martinis in the back they will do nothing.
Maybe some one smarter than me will start an anti ethanol site where it can be circulated around the web and all complain to our politicians and maybe be afraid they don't get re-elected they will do something.
We all know that it doesn't save gas and it doesn't save the environment.
One local tv station had a news story on how this one gas station still had non ethanol gas and people were lining up around the block to buy it because the people knew they got better gas mileage and their vehicles ran better.

Now we know the problem, so what can we do to resolve the problem with the chitty running bikes?
Retuning, cams, heads, hotter spark plugs, or maybe just nothing and keep bitchin?

This site has allot of great minds so I'm sure somebody has some ideas.

Thanks,Tork

[spydglide]

Now we know the problem, so what can we do to resolve the problem with the chitty running bikes?
Retuning, cams, heads, hotter spark plugs, or maybe just nothing and keep bitchin?

This site has allot of great minds so I'm sure somebody has some ideas.

Thanks,Tork

For some, it's as simple as a 'chase vehicle' carrying racing fuel, for the rest of us traveling on the scooter will mean just putting up with the degraded fuel and continuing to fuss & fume.  har! spyder

[grc]

Here's one thought: find the brand your bike runs worst on and get the bike tuned using that fuel.  Then when you fill up with some good stuff your mixture will be a little rich.  A little rich is better for driveability than a little lean.  Plays hell with the mileage, but what the hey.

The best approach is a good closed-loop fuel system.  When the special interests and crooked legislators shoved this stuff up our collective derrieres, no one obviously cared about the millions of earlier model vehicles with carburetors or open loop fuel injection that don't have a means to self adjust to the varying fuel.  Modern automobiles, at least the ones I've driven, seem to deal with the fuel situation pretty well.  Mileage does suffer, but at least driveability remains good.  Maybe this entire thing wasn't really the result of crooked legislators and farming special interest groups after all, it was a benevolent attempt by the "leadership" of our country to force everyone to buy a more modern vehicle with the latest fuel systems (and whiz-bang features), thus saving many thousands of jobs in the auto and motorcycle industries.  I guess I'll have to scrap my '05 and run down to sign up for a brand new whatever.  Just think of the boost to the economy when we all replace our obsolete equipment.  Sure hope they send a few more of those stimulus checks to help pay for it though. 

Jerry

[tmitchellofpg]

I sure wouldn't run the 10% ethanol crap, if I had a choice. When the local stations started using ethanol, I was forced in to using it. I haven't had any problem so far with performance and the gas mileage remained the same.
I have a friend with a new Yamaha,Road Star, that started to run like crap. We drained the gas and cleaned and re-tightened the battery cables. His problem went away, don't know if it was the gas or the battery. When he called the dealer they said it was because he wasn't using premium fuel. His manual calls for regular and we filled it back up with regular, that I had for my lawn motor. I always use premium in mine, since the book calls for it.
Tom