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[cahdbiker]

I was wondering if anyone here is running an S&S evo style engine. I installed a 107 (with the IST ignition) in Feb of 07. Put about 7 thousand miles on it. Since it was new the top end always had a lot of valve train clatter, and a slight knock just off idle.  None of my local mechanics could figure it out and since it was under warranty I had to take it to an authorized S&S repair center.( the nearest one to my place is 63 miles). S&S agreed it was a warranty covered issue. After they jerked around for about a six weeks sending out new lifters, pushrods, rocker arms etc, They finally knuckled under and sent out a crate so my mechanic (BENNETT'S PERFORMANCE IN LONG BEACH CA a great shop) could pull the motor and send it to the factory for a complete overhaul. I finally got it back five months and two weeks after I first dropped it off and after 82 miles the rear cylinder quit because the engine assemble at S&S forgot to tighten the Jam nuts on the rear cylinder pushrods.(by the way I questioned the rep at S&S to see if they were going to bench test the engine before they shipped it back to my mechanic and he said " We have never had a problem, the guy putting yours together has worked here for 30 years" Upon hearing that I figured something would go wrong. I have about 2000 thousand miles on the rebuilt engine ( this was taken apart completely, crank trued  no more knock off idle ) and It runs great and is engine sounds great until the oil gets to be about 175 degrees. Then I start the get this general valve train clatter that gets louder as the oil get hotter (never over 200-210 even on the hottest days since I have an oil cooler). It rattles pretty good at idle and the oil pressure drops to about 3 or 4 pounds then of course rising with the rpm.(The S&S tech sayes if the oil light does not come on do not worry about it.) Just looking for some feed back. ThanksCAHDBIKER

Well it  is late October and I am still dealing with this obnoxious valve train clatter as soon as the oil temp hits about 180 degrees.I don't hear this while riding only at idle and it is very loud and irritating. I will be taking it to my mechaninc (certified S&S repair center) for an evaluation. I will make a post after he evaluates it. CAHDBIKER

Update on my S&S107. Took it in Oct. 30th. It is still under full warranty. (parts and labor). My mechanic could not find fault in the valve train , but he discovered that one of the cylinder liners had slipped. He pulled both jugs off and sent them to S&S as per their request. They are supposed to send  new cylinders and pistons and rings. S&S downloaded the computer info and told my mechanic that there had been a lot of detonation and that they thought I should ride my bike harder and that I lugged the engine and that might have caused the evidence of preignition. That is not the way I ride.
When the motor is cold it sounded perfect. It only made noise after the oil got hot and I didn't hear any knocking from the cylinders like I did the first time they rebuilt it. I would like to hear your opinions about this. Thanks CAHDBIKER P.S. I still think there is something wrong in the valve train.

[Pajoe]

"I finally got it back five months and two weeks after I first dropped it off "

Did you have over 5 months down time?

Down time is the part that would bother me most. S&S is a great brand name and they will back up their products but losing the riding time really bothers me most. Although down time would not be too bad if it was over the winter months when i could not ride even if the bike was ready to go.  I have an Ultima 113 and the possibility of down time is a ongoing concern, I kept the 80" engine just in case, but even going back to that would take me a week or two as I lack experience in changing engines.   


There is a fellow on another forum that I read a lot that has a "1990 Bright Candy HiFi Blue FLHS/2008 S&S V107T" and from what I remember the only concerns he ever had is with some vibrations. He has been happy with his S&S 107. If interested, he is from Bedford UK. and his personal profile is at http://hdforums.com/forum/members/35993-grbrown.html . He is very active on those EVO forums.



joe

[cahdbiker]

Pajoe, My bike was in the shop for 5 1/2 months. I called my mechanic every week ( who is a very well known S&S specialist and one their authorized warranty repair centers). Initially he established that I was covered for all my work under warranty by S&S, but he wanted me to have contact with him and not S&S. Finally after he got frustrated by S&S lack of action. He told me to call them. I told them what my feelings were in a professional manner(however I was cussing on the inside the whole time I was talking to them) and within one week they sent out a crate to my mechanic so he could pull the engine and send it back to the factory. That whole process still took another 6 weeks between sending it back, getting it completely rebuilt down to truing the crank and sent back to my mechanic for installation. Then of course the S&S "expert" who did my engine forgot to tighten the jam nuts on the rear cylinder pushrods so It quit on my after 84 miles and I had to take it back in (63 miles away) to have it readjusted.I would never buy another one of their products.  However, my bike runs good and it does vibrate a little, but not a cruising speeds. I have a six speed and with a 31 tooth front pulley and I feel this is a good combo. Thanks for your interest. Ride Safe CAHDBIKER

[Pajoe]

CAHDBIKER,

I understand your frustration, the amount of time you had to wait was far too long. The next time a person tells me I should have bought a S&S engine, I may share your story.

joe

[HOGMIKE]

I was wondering if anyone here is running an S&S evo style engine. I installed a 107 (with the IST ignition) in Feb of 07. Put about 7 thousand miles on it. Since it was new the top end always had a lot of valve train clatter, and a slight knock just off idle.  None of my local mechanics could figure it out and since it was under warranty I had to take it to an authorized S&S repair center.( the nearest one to my place is 63 miles). S&S agreed it was a warranty covered issue. After they jerked around for about a six weeks sending out new lifters, pushrods, rocker arms etc, They finally knuckled under and sent out a crate so my mechanic (BENNETT'S PERFORMANCE IN LONG BEACH CA a great shop) could pull the motor and send it to the factory for a complete overhaul. I finally got it back five months and two weeks after I first dropped it off and after 82 miles the rear cylinder quit because the engine assemble at S&S forgot to tighten the Jam nuts on the rear cylinder pushrods.(by the way I questioned the rep at S&S to see if they were going to bench test the engine before they shipped it back to my mechanic and he said " We have never had a problem, the guy putting yours together has worked here for 30 years" Upon hearing that I figured something would go wrong. I have about 2000 thousand miles on the rebuilt engine ( this was taken apart completely, crank trued  no more knock off idle ) and It runs great and is engine sounds great until the oil gets to be about 175 degrees. Then I start the get this general valve train clatter that gets louder as the oil get hotter (never over 200-210 even on the hottest days since I have an oil cooler). It rattles pretty good at idle and the oil pressure drops to about 3 or 4 pounds then of course rising with the rpm.(The S&S tech sayes if the oil light does not come on do not worry about it.) Just looking for some feed back. Thanks CAHDBIKER

I have their 113" in my bagger, also IST ignition..got about 60k miles on it now. Been all over the western states last 3 years. Pistons are noisy until the motor gets up to temp (about 220-240 on oil temp). Forged pistons tend to do that!
Rockers are a little noisy. It has a sweet spot at about 3000 rpm, and everything is very quiet!
Starts every time, does not use/blow oil. Mucho power everywhere. This bike is ridden hard, 2-up, in high heat (yes, I have a cooler)
I, for one, am very happy with the motor and tech support I get from S&S over the years. (My '65 has S&S wheels we put in about early 80's, still running great!)
Sorry you are having problems, but, S&S has had a good reputation around here, anyway.
IMO, of course!
Mike

[Hoist!]

S&S has their failures. EVERYBODY does at some point. Sorry about yours. You'll have better luck having an S&S Dealer deal with them. I love S&S chit though. Consistently been there thru the years for us when nobody else was. Been using their stuff for years, and my TC110 is basically an S&S motor now, and runs like a mutha! I've been very happy with them.

Hoist!

[cahdbiker]

S&S has their failures. EVERYBODY does at some point. Sorry about yours. You'll have better luck having an S&S Dealer deal with them. I love S&S chit though. Consistently been there thru the years for us when nobody else was. Been using their stuff for years, and my TC110 is basically an S&S motor now, and runs like a mutha! I've been very happy with them.

Hoist!
Hoist, I was wondering what S&S parts you put in your TC110 engine. Thanks for your imput. CAHDBIKER

[Hoist!]

Hoist, I was wondering what S&S parts you put in your TC110 engine. Thanks for your imput. CAHDBIKER

I'm running an S&S 4-3/8 crank with a Timken in the bottom. I'm running S&S 585 gear drive cams with their HL2T lifters and their adjustable pushrods and PR covers, and the S&S crankcase breather reed valve. I'd have used more of their stuff in it, but I already had Axtell 4" barrels for stock stroke, CP pistons, and TP Rocker boxes with TP roller rockers. HD 110 heads, ported a, flowed and milled for 9.8:1 CR with Cometic 0.030 HG's. I use a stock ECM with a SERT and a 62mm HPI TB and Big Bore FatCat exhaust. But the performance is ALL S&S!

Hoist!

[cahdbiker]

I wasn't quite sure how to modify my original post regarding the problems I have had with my 107 S&S Evo style motor with IST ignition. My mechanic(Bennet's in Long Beach very reliable and down to earth) got my bike back to me last wednesday the 16th. It was gone since Oct. 30th. Not his fault because S&S  does things like not ship parts when they say they are going to etc. In my earlier posts I said I had problems with my valve train. That was not the case. It was too much cylinder clearance and a slipped cylinder liner. After S&S authorized him he removed my entire valve train and could find nothing wrong with it.(even though when the oil hit 175 to 200 it sounded like everything was about to come to pieces) it turned out that the pistons had .0045 to . 005 in clearance. This was on a complete factory rebuild after approx 2000 miles. When S&S authorized the rest of the warranty work he told them to ship the new cylinders,pistons and rings, without any work done to them by S&S so he could clearance everything himself. He set the piston clearance at .0025. I only have 100 miles on it since I picked it up but even at 200 degrees oil temp the motor is very quiet.( more quite than my 09 SEUC). I  am using amsoil 60 wt synthetic. I think I will stick to that at the 500 mile change if he sayes it is okay.So because of the poor workmanship at S&S when they had Bennet's pull my motor and send it in for a factory rebuild it cost them anther $769. for him to redo their crappy work. When he first the motor went out I called S&S when they shipped it back  to see if they did a bench test and they said "no because we have never  had an engine come back when we redo it". I said thanks you just jinxed the whole thing. Also on the first redo they (S&S) forgot to tighten my rear pushrod jam nuts (engine quite after 72 miles S&S fault  not Bennets) and they did not return my K&N air filter ( another fifty bucks out of my pocket) .I think their quality control is awful and they assemble their engines too loose. If you are in the Los Angeles area and have an S&S motor that needs work I highly recommend Bennets in Long Beach area 562-498-1819. They have a large clean shop with a dyno and they don't try to sell you things you don't need.
Sorry to ramble on, but I just wanted to do a follow up post regarding my issue. CAHDBIKER

[Bullwinkle]

I have an older FXR with the S&S 111 engine in it.  The engine has been perfect so far, but not so much for the S&S tech support.  I called S&S and asked about the differences between 111 and 124 heads, cylinders, and pistons.  They said there was no difference.  The heads, likely; the pistons, maybe.  The cylinders on the 124 are definitely a bit taller than those on the 111.

At different times I have called them to ask about things like parts interchange, pipes, lifters, head flow differences, and intake manifold fit.  Sometimes the answer is right, sometimes not.  One day they said the SSW heads on the 113 and the SSW+ heads on the 111 were the same.  Later another rep said they were different.  I'd say the odds are about 50/50 to get a good answer.  So, assembly issues aside, their tech support advice is not something to depend on.  To be brutally honest, I would -never- risk high dollar parts solely on their advice.  If I had the same problem with my engine as talked about here, i would have nothing good at all to say about them.

[HOGMIKE]

I have an older FXR with the S&S 111 engine in it.  The engine has been perfect so far, but not so much for the S&S tech support.  I called S&S and asked about the differences between 111 and 124 heads, cylinders, and pistons.  They said there was no difference.  The heads, likely; the pistons, maybe.  The cylinders on the 124 are definitely a bit taller than those on the 111.

At different times I have called them to ask about things like parts interchange, pipes, lifters, head flow differences, and intake manifold fit.  Sometimes the answer is right, sometimes not.  One day they said the SSW heads on the 113 and the SSW+ heads on the 111 were the same.  Later another rep said they were different.  I'd say the odds are about 50/50 to get a good answer.  So, assembly issues aside, their tech support advice is not something to depend on.  To be brutally honest, I would -never- risk high dollar parts solely on their advice.  If I had the same problem with my engine as talked about here, i would have nothing good at all to say about them.

I have had good tech support from S&S, including when I see them at the runs.
I guess it just depends who you get on the phone.
I had a name for the guy I had been dealing with, but, he is no longer with the company. Maybe they are going through a "house cleaning" Who knows??
I have used their products since about 1975 and had always had good service.

Maybe I'm lucky?

[Bullwinkle]

As I said, the engine has been fine; no complaints at all.  I have no illusions that it is as strong as one that has been gone through and had things like the quench properly set, but I have -no- complaints.  Even after over 30K miles the crosshatch is still visible on the cylinder walls and cranking compression is good.  Get the compression ratio up to about 10.5 or so, use a thinner head gasket, do a little head work and all will be well.

My problem has to do with the bozos who insist that the 124 and the 111 cylinders and pistons are the same.  Impossible, since the extra stroke length has to me accounted for through either piston pin location or cylinder length.  Or, I guess, the deck height of the case, a financial impracticality.