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[HD Street Performance]

I am not sure all know so I just will put it out there.
The CVO110 motor is factory equipped with the SE255 and has enough compression without touching it. This fact IMO is what drove them to ACR solenoids. The heads are large and breath well out of the box but have some inherant problems such as loose fitting guides, loose guide to valve fit, 1st gen ACR solenoids, and an intake with a 93% throat to valve which is a torque killer. Large heads, ports and valves, have the characteristics of moving the torque to the right. It is tricky to drag good low end torque out of these motors and the first thing guys do is put in a lot larger cam and expect to retain or improve that torque. Fact is if you move from a 25 intake close cam (stock) to a 45+ there will be a significant hit off idle to 2,500, even when the compression is raised to compensate for the later intake close. A good tune with timing mods and a good pipe can help minimize the hit. Adding compression has the effect of improving the low end, recapturing what has been taken away but going over 10.5/1 in a bagger is a mistake most of the time. As the engine speed rises the effect of the later intake close and overlap (bleed off) and the dynamic cylinder pressure rises above a motor that had stock compression and a shorter cam and now it is a challenge to keep the motor from pinging in that range.
Bottom line is pick your sweet spot. You have a 2,000 rpm window where you wil be able to maintain maximum torque or near there. Also keep in mind these motors fall quick if the duration and intake close are not right for that desired window.
I am open for rebutal, JMHO

[HOGMIKE]

I am not sure all know so I just will put it out there.
The CVO110 motor is factory equipped with the SE255 and has enough compression without touching it. This fact IMO is what drove them to ACR solenoids. The heads are large and breath well out of the box but have some inherant problems such as loose fitting guides, loose guide to valve fit, 1st gen ACR solenoids, and an intake with a 93% throat to valve which is a torque killer. Large heads, ports and valves, have the characteristics of moving the torque to the right. It is tricky to drag good low end torque out of these motors and the first thing guys do is put in a lot larger cam and expect to retain or improve that torque. Fact is if you move from a 25 intake close cam (stock) to a 45+ there will be a significant hit off idle to 2,500, even when the compression is raised to compensate for the later intake close. A good tune with timing mods and a good pipe can help minimize the hit. Adding compression has the effect of improving the low end, recapturing what has been taken away but going over 10.5/1 in a bagger is a mistake most of the time. As the engine speed rises the effect of the later intake close and overlap (bleed off) and the dynamic cylinder pressure rises above a motor that had stock compression and a shorter cam and now it is a challenge to keep the motor from pinging in that range.
Bottom line is pick your sweet spot. You have a 2,000 rpm window where you wil be able to maintain maximum torque or near there. Also keep in mind these motors fall quick if the duration and intake close are not right for that desired window.
I am open for rebutal, JMHO

Don I would have to agree on most of what you said.
Over the years I have done a bunch of trial and error "testing" on what works for ME!
I started with a pan motor that John Woods (RIP) built. I found out that big valves, ports, cam and bunches of compression is not fun to ride in a bagger!
I ended up pulling the cam out, going low compression, and TRYING to make it more civilized.
On the newer bikes, my riding style is changing somewhat (I'm older and wiser?) and I do more touring. I want/need low end torque, and like you said you make a compromise between where the torque comes in and what RPM's you use.
My solution was to go to more cubic inches and keep the torque RPM's low. I still like a short arm, and big bore, bottom ends seem to last longer.
The downside to some of these builds is the rest of the drive train. My pan will pull rivets out of the sprocket and cracked the left side frame twice!
The EVO will break belts. Always something in the quest for power.
The trick is to look for that "balance" of power and manners.
This is MHO!!

[/color]

[Yoda]

Well I have managed to make myself look foolish.  However, what I have gathered from listening to you fine smart folks is that aside from the cams, what I have chosen to do will work for my riding needs.  More research is needed for cam choice.
Have a Happy New Year,
Yoda

ps thanks for all the information, my head hurts now.

I am not sure all know so I just will put it out there.
The CVO110 motor is factory equipped with the SE255 and has enough compression without touching it. This fact IMO is what drove them to ACR solenoids. The heads are large and breath well out of the box but have some inherant problems such as loose fitting guides, loose guide to valve fit, 1st gen ACR solenoids, and an intake with a 93% throat to valve which is a torque killer. Large heads, ports and valves, have the characteristics of moving the torque to the right. It is tricky to drag good low end torque out of these motors and the first thing guys do is put in a lot larger cam and expect to retain or improve that torque. Fact is if you move from a 25 intake close cam (stock) to a 45+ there will be a significant hit off idle to 2,500, even when the compression is raised to compensate for the later intake close. A good tune with timing mods and a good pipe can help minimize the hit. Adding compression has the effect of improving the low end, recapturing what has been taken away but going over 10.5/1 in a bagger is a mistake most of the time. As the engine speed rises the effect of the later intake close and overlap (bleed off) and the dynamic cylinder pressure rises above a motor that had stock compression and a shorter cam and now it is a challenge to keep the motor from pinging in that range.
Bottom line is pick your sweet spot. You have a 2,000 rpm window where you wil be able to maintain maximum torque or near there. Also keep in mind these motors fall quick if the duration and intake close are not right for that desired window.
I am open for rebutal, JMHO

[Yoda]

I bow to all the smart folks here.  Was at my local dealership this weekend and while discussing the cams he mentioned that the tech doesn't think there is enough valve clearance with the 263E.  The catalog says it works with CVO heads and the Lift @ Valve Intake and Exhaust is .637"/.637".  Stock 255s are .550"/.550".  Thoughts?
Based on the information provided here from you fine folks it looks like I will go with the 259E and the Fatshotz.  The cam has a better ABDC (49^o).

[Hoist!]

I bow to all the smart folks here.  Was at my local dealership this weekend and while discussing the cams he mentioned that the tech doesn't think there is enough valve clearance with the 263E.  The catalog says it works with CVO heads and the Lift @ Valve Intake and Exhaust is .637"/.637".  Stock 255s are .550"/.550".  Thoughts?
Based on the information provided here from you fine folks it looks like I will go with the 259E and the Fatshotz.  The cam has a better ABDC (49^o).

Why not discuss your mods with a knowledgable engine builder that will be doing the work? Discuss your goals and requirements. Then listen to him. It's all about the RIGHT combination. I wouldn't just "guess" at what the best components are. It's how the combination of components work together that matters.

Hoist!

[HD Street Performance]

Will say one thing
Either of those cams need added compression to help retain any decent low to midrange torque.

[Yoda]

Hoist, I have been listening to the opinions here and to my local shop of whom I trust.  I have been "trolling" so many threads here, I may have forgotten to post the combination, my needs and riding style.  Want a mid range torque increase, would like to produce more than 100hp and typically ride between 2000-3500 rpm. A lot of two up and want the mid-range torque to pass and climb hills efficiently.  Oh and go fast when I am riding by myself.

5 Quart Oil Pan
SE Fatshotz 2 into 2
10.5/1 Compression Pistons
259E Cams
Push Rods Perfect
Cam Install Kit
Heavy Breather Air Cleaner
SE Pro Super Tuner

[Hoist!]

Hoist, I have been listening to the opinions here and to my local shop of whom I trust.  I have been "trolling" so many threads here, I may have forgotten to post the combination, my needs and riding style.  Want a mid range torque increase, would like to produce more than 100hp and typically ride between 2000-3500 rpm. A lot of two up and want the mid-range torque to pass and climb hills efficiently.  Oh and go fast when I am riding by myself.

5 Quart Oil Pan
SE Fatshotz 2 into 2
10.5/1 Compression Pistons
259E Cams
Push Rods Perfect
Cam Install Kit
Heavy Breather Air Cleaner
SE Pro Super Tuner

You can't go by what you read here and make a decision from that. You must first know EXACTLY what you're doing with your heads and CR. Whoever's doing that design and work should select the cam to match. I've seen way too many people disappointed with their builds by thinking they can piece these packages together from just asking questions on the internet. Very knowledgable people here. But your designer/builder should make these decisions after knowing your goals, not a forum (although it could be a forum member doing it for you if that's your choice, but not by consensus).

Hoist!

[HD Street Performance]

Whoever's doing that design and work should select the cam to match

Harley Davidson INC, Screaming Eagle Performance Parts Division, local dealership service department.
This build has been done before successfully. You will need a very good pipe, no cat and no FLTR 2 into 1 to get this combo to work well and a custom tune by a good tuner. The pipe and the tune are where most of these builds go sideways IMHO.

[geezerglide]

You will need a very good pipe, no cat and no FLTR 2 into 1 to get this combo to work well and a custom tune by a good tuner. The pipe and the tune are where most of these builds go sideways IMHO.

Don,

To confirm in regards to the exhaust, is your recommendation is not to go with HD 2:1 Nightstick? What about a V&H Pro Pipe, etc type 2:1? I have used V&H Prop Pipe successfully in past builds. However, on the recent 2010 ULTRA Limited 54H Cams and mild headwork  went with the SuperTrapp Fatshots Slip ons connected to HS Stock catless  (Fullsac) header pipe, so far happy with build.

When I get bike back to Canada will take over to Lee at JARZ to tune. I think their is still some more TQ and HP to be had. Down the road may change to a 2:1 i.e. V&H, Bub etc.

geezerglide

[Yoda]

the decisions are a combination of what I have learned here and from discussing the build with the local dealership (service manager/tech).  I had an idea of what I wanted and the discussion here has narrowed it down and my talk with the service manager/tech doing the work, this combination seems to fit the bill.
I think I may lose some without going with full pipes and slip ons, but that is the choice I made.  I am very confident on the skills of the tech to tune it and cofident that the end result will suit my needs.
Thanks for all the info and I will continue to listen and learn, taking all of it with a grain of salt.

[HD Street Performance]

Ask to see previous similar build dyno sheets.
Docs in St Louis is a performance oriented dealer and has a good tuner.

[johnsachs]

I bow to all the smart folks here.  Was at my local dealership this weekend and while discussing the cams he mentioned that the tech doesn't think there is enough valve clearance with the 263E.  The catalog says it works with CVO heads and the Lift @ Valve Intake and Exhaust is .637"/.637".  Stock 255s are .550"/.550".  Thoughts?

Yoda,
FYI,the valves get closest to the piston anywhere from 8 degrees before to 8 degrees after TDC. on OVERLAP.
Gross cam lift doesn't factor in. It's all about the event on overlap.
John

[Hoist!]

Whoever's doing that design and work should select the cam to match

Harley Davidson INC, Screaming Eagle Performance Parts Division, local dealership service department.
This build has been done before successfully. You will need a very good pipe, no cat and no FLTR 2 into 1 to get this combo to work well and a custom tune by a good tuner. The pipe and the tune are where most of these builds go sideways IMHO.

I rest my case! Yeah, been done before. Dyno charts are in their P&A book. But you can do way better with a good designer/builder. Otherwise, you'd be outta business Don!

Hoist!

[HD Street Performance]

Hey I do work for dealers and they want to use SE parts when they can. Sometimes just have to roll with the cards we are dealt. The cams work OK and in the case of the 110 motor with their OEM SE head they seem to be doing well. Pretty much depends on what the rider wants, the route to take. Some are very happy with the stock cam and just a good tune and pipe as they never get over 4k and others want more...