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[GBRAVO]

I totally agree with change of the 4 lifters, the cams and the cam bearings, this was clear to me from the very beginning. Also clean the oil pump an change oil and filter.

So the real question is what I should put in my bike.

I have other HD for speed and get fun improving the performance, buy in my CVO 2008 Road King, I need reliability and decent performance, in Chile I do long trips with no chance of any assistance in the road.

At this point many people recommend the woods directional lifters, so I’ll follow that recommendation, if I can keep my stock pushrod, what I really want is a reliable roller in the lifter, reasonable noise and not any fancy tappet function to increase a few HP.
I want to keep my stock pushrod, they are reliable and light.

Regarding the bearings I had good comments about the Torrington B-168… Any additional comments?

Now the cams  … the CVO has the SE 255… I should just buy a new one or I should take the chance to try other model, if so… what cam I should buy, thinking in the reliability and decent performance for touring trips.

[HUBBARD]

Nope - not the SE lifter.  The stock Harley B lifter - part number 18538-99B.   

I concur.  Jim's lifters (1), imploded in Ol' Maudie and junked the Engine.  Fu*king shame.  5K up a Hog's a$$, if you ask me.  Hope the HD Lifters will live longer.  Later--HUBBARD

[smiley1049]

Do NOT Use Stock Push Rods With woods Lifters!
Per Woods there is enough difference between the two at times can hold valves open and you will have a no start condition cold this happened to a friend of mine he chased this concern all last summer found out it was the lifters that was causing the problem Had to install adj pushrods problem solved oh ya it had stock cams on a 09 CVO Roadglide.

[2018_FLTRXSE]

Do NOT Use Stock Push Rods With woods Lifters!
Per Woods there is enough difference between the two at times can hold valves open and you will have a no start condition cold this happened to a friend of mine he chased this concern all last summer found out it was the lifters that was causing the problem Had to install adj pushrods problem solved oh ya it had stock cams on a 09 CVO Roadglide.

Correct... Woods recommends taperd adjustables like those used in my bike. also makes future services much easier.

Inspect the OP carefully for scoring, if scored, replace... I went with the fueling OP for mine... I'm paranoid about minimal oil pressure.

Remove the oil pan and clean of debris...

put everything back together... hope for the best!

I just saw Big Block Chevy roller lifters look like that... similar noise.

[GBRAVO]

I wonder if there is any way that I can use the Wood directional lifter with non-adjustable pushrod with the SE255 cam.

I will like to explore the idea to use the SCREAMIN' EAGLE PERFECT FIT PUSHRODS.
Does any one has experience with this or can help me to define what pushrod length I should use.
Thanks.

[2018_FLTRXSE]

I wonder if there is any way that I can use the Wood directional lifter with non-adjustable pushrod with the SE255 cam.

I will like to explore the idea to use the SCREAMIN' EAGLE PERFECT FIT PUSHRODS.
Does any one has experience with this or can help me to define what pushrod length I should use.
Thanks.

from what I recall...  they are available 0, +/-.030 and +/-.060

wanted to go that route, but that would mean taking measurements then ordering the correct length...

HD has some prescribed lengths and cam configurations listed in the P&A book (for HD lifters though.. not woods)... maybe you can call woods and ask them yourself?

[grc]

I've looked through the information on the Wood lifters in the past (and actually had a set for a short time), and I don't remember anything that said you couldn't run non-adjustable pushrods.  Are you saying that the physical size of the parts is different, or are you just concerned about the fact that Wood recommends adjusting the pushrods to .120-.130" lifter piston travel rather than the usual centered adjustment? 

Assuming the critical lifter dimensions are the same as factory lifters, you could use the +.030" Perfect Fit rods to achieve the Wood recommended adjustment.  I guess a call to Bobby would be a good idea to make sure.  205-525-4949 (Alabama USA)    Or try email;   bob@woodcarbs.com


Jerry

[2018_FLTRXSE]

I've looked through the information on the Wood lifters in the past (and actually had a set for a short time), and I don't remember anything that said you couldn't run non-adjustable pushrods.  Are you saying that the physical size of the parts is different, or are you just concerned about the fact that Wood recommends adjusting the pushrods to .120-.130" lifter piston travel rather than the usual centered adjustment? 

Assuming the critical lifter dimensions are the same as factory lifters, you could use the +.030" Perfect Fit rods to achieve the Wood recommended adjustment.  I guess a call to Bobby would be a good idea to make sure.  205-525-4949 (Alabama USA)    Or try email;   bob@woodcarbs.com


Jerry

with my combo, Bobby spoke with the tech and told him to use the adjustables.

KNIGHT PROWLER® “DIRECTIONAL” ROLLER LIFTERS INSTRUCTIONS

1. Using factory HD service manual, install cams, cam support plate, oil pump and related parts.

2. Clean and lubricate lifter bores, lifter roller race and bearings. We use Kendall GT1 20W-50 oil.

3. Install lifters in the case. Install lifter block covers.

4. Adjust rear cylinder.

A. Make sure piston is at TDC on compression stroke.

B. Install push rod and extend until there is zero lash. Be careful not to go past zero lash. If in doubt, loosen adjustment and extend slowly until there is zero lash.

C. Extend push rods to reach .120 to .130 total travel. Tighten push rod locking nut securely.

D. Wait until push rod turns freely to make sure lifter has bled down.

5. Repeat steps A, B, C, and D for front cylinder.

BELOW IS CHART OF PUSH ROD TRAVEL PER TURN
24 TEETH = .042 travel 36 TEETH = .028 travel
28 TEETH = .036 travel 40 TEETH = .025 travel
32 TEETH = .031 travel
Example: 32 TEETH [.125 ÷ .031 = Approximately 4 turns]

[grc]

with my combo, Bobby spoke with the tech and told him to use the adjustables.

KNIGHT PROWLER® “DIRECTIONAL” ROLLER LIFTERS INSTRUCTIONS

1. Using factory HD service manual, install cams, cam support plate, oil pump and related parts.

2. Clean and lubricate lifter bores, lifter roller race and bearings. We use Kendall GT1 20W-50 oil.

3. Install lifters in the case. Install lifter block covers.

4. Adjust rear cylinder.

A. Make sure piston is at TDC on compression stroke.

B. Install push rod and extend until there is zero lash. Be careful not to go past zero lash. If in doubt, loosen adjustment and extend slowly until there is zero lash.

C. Extend push rods to reach .120 to .130 total travel. Tighten push rod locking nut securely.
       *****Normal adjustment is .100", which results in a centered piston.  So you would have to account for the additional .020-.030 recommended by Wood*****grc
D. Wait until push rod turns freely to make sure lifter has bled down.

5. Repeat steps A, B, C, and D for front cylinder.

BELOW IS CHART OF PUSH ROD TRAVEL PER TURN
24 TEETH = .042 travel 36 TEETH = .028 travel
28 TEETH = .036 travel 40 TEETH = .025 travel
32 TEETH = .031 travel
Example: 32 TEETH [.125 ÷ .031 = Approximately 4 turns]

It's possible that your particular cam base circle diameter plus the .020"-.030" difference in lifter "preload" made for a combination that wasn't covered by the range of one piece pushrods.  If GBRAVO is staying with the stock cams, then all he has to account for is the .020"-.030", so a .030" over pushrod should do the trick.  That's all assuming that the actual lifter dimensions are the same, which they should be but I'd still recommend getting that confirmed.


Jerry

[smiley1049]

If you use a longer pushrod you would have a worse problem with holding the valve open talk to Bob Woods on this matter as stated earlier the combination of the stock pushrods or longer pushrods and the way the lifters are made will hold the lifters open on cold start up you would need to go with a shorter pushrod than stock.

[cvobiker]

JIMS lifters are generally thought to be a weak link - even in JIMS motors.  I would suggest S&S lifters, Harley stock "B" lifters, or Woods directional lifters...  

I second this quote...way too many problems with JIMs litters, not to mention their motors too... Sadunbar has good recommendations here, my preference are the Woods Directionals paired with Smith Bros tapered push rods, but a bit pricy....

[grc]

If you use a longer pushrod you would have a worse problem with holding the valve open talk to Bob Woods on this matter as stated earlier the combination of the stock pushrods or longer pushrods and the way the lifters are made will hold the lifters open on cold start up you would need to go with a shorter pushrod than stock.

Something about that doesn't sound quite right Chuck.  His own published information on those lifters mentions that his lifters take longer to pump up and will therefore be noisy until the engine is warm.  So I don't see how that equates to holding the valves open when cold; the opposite should be true.

Anyway, there is nothing about an adjustable pushrod, once it has been adjusted and locked, that is going to make it any different than a one piece pushrod of the same length in terms of holding the valve open when cold or any of the other arguments.  The trick is to determine the correct length you need, and all that should take is accounting for the differences from the stock configuration in stack height, cam base circle, and the height of the piston in the lifter.  In this case, his stack height stays the same, the cam base circle obviously stays the same, so all he needs to do is compensate for the height of the lifter piston relative to the stock lifters.


Jerry

[GBRAVO]

Base in all your recommendations I'll take the safe side. I have a kit of adjustable lifters, so I'll use it to measure the actual length and check the theory if all goes well I'll buy the SE stock+0.030.
As you can sea I'm stubborn in the non-adjustable lifter…
Now I need to do my shopping list and wait…
Thank folks for all the support in this matter  ; I'll you posted in my results.
Gonzalo.

[smiley1049]

Jerry
As I said in a previous post We had a 2009 CVO RoadGlide and changed his lifters out no other mods done as soon as lifters installed when bike is cold it would act like it had weak compression and would not start battled this all last summer after trying to start he would play with the starter trying to start then it would start took to dealer they could not find what the problem was but when the bike wouldn't start  the compression wood go away also they said.  He had told them that the only mod that was done was the lifters they got in touch with bob Woods Bob said he recommends adj push rods. So tell me if the lifters are causing the valves to stay open I would think you would need shorter pushrods not longer ones if my thinking is wrong please explain it to me.


Chuck

[grc]

Jerry
As I said in a previous post We had a 2009 CVO RoadGlide and changed his lifters out no other mods done as soon as lifters installed when bike is cold it would act like it had weak compression and would not start battled this all last summer after trying to start he would play with the starter trying to start then it would start took to dealer they could not find what the problem was but when the bike wouldn't start  the compression wood go away also they said.  He had told them that the only mod that was done was the lifters they got in touch with bob Woods Bob said he recommends adj push rods. So tell me if the lifters are causing the valves to stay open I would think you would need shorter pushrods not longer ones if my thinking is wrong please explain it to me.


Chuck

Chuck, IF that is exactly what was happening (the lifters holding the valves open), then those lifters could not have been manufactured to the same dimensions as a Harley lifter, or something wasn't installed correctly.  That's why I mentioned in my previous posts that the lifter dimensions should be verified first.  But that still has nothing to do with solid versus adjustable.  The correct length one piece rod will work just fine, with less weight and less risk of failure.  Now, if Mr. Wood is indicating that you need to use adjustables because his lifters aren't very precise dimensionally, I might go along with that.  The two sets I had weren't made right; that's why I'm back running the Harley "B" lifters. 


Jerry